Curse

Sigon · Jun 29, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

It's like this: Most skill balance & changes are made for PvP. The cause is what looks well for a PvE solo turns in imbagodmode for a organized PvP team.

My idea is to create a group restriction preventing more then 2-3 players of the same primary proffesion be in the party. This will break the back of gimmicks atleast for some time & remove the overnerfing from skills like the paragon's.

I know it's a harsh idea but i can't see anything else.

p.s. No i didn't read if it was posted before. Sorry i'm in a hurry.

BL1ZZARD · Jun 29, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

nah im not a big fan of that idea...

DutchSmurf · Jun 29, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

This has been discussed over the past years without ever reaching an agreement. I honestly never saw a reason to be against it, even less now we have ritualists and dervishes (so if you want 4 healers or 4 melee, you can). The main reason not to do it always has been that it limits creativity, with the WM-LuM match as prime example.

willypiggy · Jun 29, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

OR We could just keep PvP and PvE skills separate? Oh wait, its like that now!

/endsarcasm

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 29, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

well that way rawr couldnt bring 27 monks anyway

Aera · Jun 29, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

well that way rawr couldnt bring 27 monks anyway

They'd bring N/Rts with [weapon of remedy][vengeful weapon][enfeebling blood]

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 29, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

You mean like noGG does?

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 29, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

While we're at it, lets just remove any versatility left in the game and force everyone to run a fixed skill bar.

Good idea, yeah?

No.

romeus petrus · Jun 29, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

/notsigned

Just not making enough sense to me.

Tearz1993 · Jun 29, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

But Baby couldn't run paraspike anymore

Sigon · Jun 29, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Limit what creativity? Most balanced groups i see have 2-3 of the same primary class. I don't want build restrictions.

Also the PvP/PvE skill separations is too minor. It will be alot easier to put this in to use then split the every skill in two.

valence · Jun 29, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

While we're at it, lets just remove any versatility left in the game and force everyone to run a fixed skill bar.

Good idea, yeah?

No.

i liked costume brawl

Akaraxle · Jun 29, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

VERY old idea, was never liked much.

Killed u man · Jun 29, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

By this, you're not taking Attributes into concideraton. By this, you assume that every Ele is the same as another Ele. Or that every Necro is the same as another Necro.

Are U hereby declaring that a Fire ele, Earth ele/Warder and a Water Ele/Snare are EXACTLY the same, and thus 3 of them in 1 build gimmick?

It is clear you're trying to get rid of gimmicks, mainly OP skill abuse gimmicks, such as Searing Flames.

However, WHY go through all the troubles of looking for gimmick proof systems that are completely balanced, which you won't find anyways, when the solution usually is the build itself.

Bloodspike? Nerf the life stealing spike damage. (No protable)
SF? Nerf Searing Flames. -This skill is OP on so many levels, it just needs to go-
etc...

Problems like these can easily be solved by skill updates. NOT, however, à la Anet, once every 4 months that is...

Bi-weekly skill balances arn't too much to ask for, concidering they actually have a guy hired to do this (Izzy). Sure, he's working on GW2, but seriously now, HOW much content will there be in GW2 that needs balancing? Doesn't GW2 take off where GW1 dropped the ropes?

MOST of the balancing is already done in GW1 (They said it themselves GW1 is the "test-ground" for GW2), so HOW long can it possibly take to balance (It's hard to balanced anyways pre-beta, and kinda pointless) a game that already has the basics in another game?

erk · Jun 30, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigon

It's like this: Most skill balance & changes are made for PvP. The cause is what looks well for a PvE solo turns in imbagodmode for a organized PvP team.

My idea is to create a group restriction preventing more then 2-3 players of the same primary proffesion be in the party. This will break the back of gimmicks atleast for some time & remove the overnerfing from skills like the paragon's.

I know it's a harsh idea but i can't see anything else.

p.s. No i didn't read if it was posted before. Sorry i'm in a hurry.

That sort of thing would be nice for RA, eg. no duplicate primaries at all unless there is no other professions in the queue, but I don't think it's good for organized PvP.

Although purists might argue against spike builds with 3, 5 , 8 similar professions, they are still a valid form of play and option reductions can only serve to drive people away that are otherwise bored and trying something novel. The impact on HA would be very bad, and numbers would drop rapidly.

Riotgear · Jun 30, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigon

Most skill balance & changes are made for PvP. The cause is what looks well for a PvE solo turns in imbagodmode for a organized PvP team.

I think PvE is slowly shifting towards imbagodmode anyway, harr.

Anyway, while this idea may be "radical" it is hardly the first time it has come up. It's still not a good idea, because the problem lies elsewhere.

Particularly, every class has its strengths and weaknesses, and stacking several of the same class should be compounding their strengths while also compounding their weaknesses. The problem lies when those weaknesses are minimized or fail to scale.

HA is full of gimmicks because it minimizes the weaknesses of several builds, i.e. hexways, spikes, and zergs that could never operate if their opponents weren't forced into 8v8 fights with minimal mobility.

Miss Puddles · Jun 30, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

i don't like the idea of being prevented from running however many of a single profession that i want. it feels too much like we'd be parented into running "balanced" teams. i want to run whatever i want. 6 mesmers ftw!

credit · Jun 30, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Just delete sins, dervs, rits, and paragons.

Kinn · Jun 30, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I will never understand why this many years into the game, people still seem to think these sorts of massively fundamental changes even stand a chance of being considered.

It's up there with stuff like "increase skill slots to ten!", or "only allow elite skills if your region has favour!"

Skye Marin · Jun 30, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

This idea isn't new, and it also isn't feasible or good.

What needs to be fixed are mechanics that increase in power with more of the same type. Something like Spirit Spam, Searing Flames, or Paragon teams just get stronger with more copies in play. It's the skills and the way they benefit from stacking in particular that cause problems.

Something that I hope will be in GW2, and that is generally acknowledged, is teams using one type of combat element should be made easier to deal with. Cry of Frustration was buffed significantly, and that helps against caster spikes a lot. Buffing Xinrae's Weapon would help tons too.

The issue isn't per-profession, it's per-skill, and per-build.

Cross-profession synergies just need to be stronger than inter-profession synergies.

Also, there needs to be more comprehensive objectives in early stages of HA to demonstrate player skill. As Riotgear said, the weaknesses of certain strong combat builds are minimized in annihilation gametypes. If the first round of HA was a sort of mini-GvG where the ability to split was given some value, then tons of builds that people complain about simply wouldn't be viable.